OPPO, why do you need feminism?

"Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2" (pompei426) 04/03/2014 at 14:50 • Filed to: None

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Yep, just go for it. I personally need feminism because I like girls that can work on their cars. Bam. *Jimmies might be rustled

RacecaR > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 14:53

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Meh, feminism isn't needed if we all just treat other like decent human beings.

Audi-os, amigos > RacecaR 04/03/2014 at 14:56

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That's a big if, my friend.

Lekker > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 14:56

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Lol. Jimmies might be rustled. Hahahaha

I do however love that too. I have dated only one girl that knows cars and helped me work on mine at the time. It definitely sets your trousers on fire when you a gf that tells you "I ordered you a present. But it will be a beyatch to install" only to find out she had ordered me an exhaust, headers and heat wrap, and she helped me install it. That being said, she did out-knowledge me once when I spotted what I had thought was a heavily modded MR2, but turned out to be a Fiero, which I hadn't learned of at the time. Aaaaaaaaand she did love to get naughty in any new car we had a chance to.

RacecaR > Audi-os, amigos 04/03/2014 at 14:59

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Yeah, I understand that.

yamahog > RacecaR 04/03/2014 at 15:00

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So we do need it. Thanks.

Rainbow > RacecaR 04/03/2014 at 15:00

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That's the definition of feminism, though. Total equality between genders. It takes its name from the oppressed party, which causes confusion way too often. So many people think it's about turning the tables against men, but that's not true feminism.

Basically, everyone who is not an asshole is a feminist by its actual definition.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Lekker 04/03/2014 at 15:03

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Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Rainbow 04/03/2014 at 15:08

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I don't completely agree with that. Exhibit 1, Jezebel.com. Also, there are some things that are instinctual and historically based. Yes, I believe that men and women should be on equal terms in all facets of life, but being a man is not the same a being a women. I get frustrated when I read articles of women criticizing male ideals.

Kailand09 > Rainbow 04/03/2014 at 15:11

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I'd say it is a misnomer then. I've met many women who are on the radical side of the spectrum too, who don't define it the way you have.

Damn radicals ruining it for everybody.

It should really be called "equal-ism" or something.

Also a lot of people assume that we are all the same when trying to talk about equality, which simply isn't true. Everyone should embrace differences, but that is separate from equality.

CRider > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:13

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I'd say I get the biggest kick out of the shit in Como magazine. I mean, it's psychotic but rather humorous. Is this really how Jezebellies(?) think?

Example 1

Example 2

Merkin Muffley > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:17

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What ideals are exclusively male?

Merkin Muffley > RacecaR 04/03/2014 at 15:20

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all feminism is is the idea that men and women should be equal. So what you are saying is "we don't need to treat men and women equally if we treat men and women equally."

Gamecat235 > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:20

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. . .

What?

Equal but different is fine, but I don't actually understand your comment in the context here.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > CRider 04/03/2014 at 15:21

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For the second one, she wouldn't live past #5

Merkin Muffley > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:24

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Have you ever complained about, trash talked, or felt angry/aggravated toward the government? If so, you understand where people on jezebel are coming from. It is human nature for the less powerful to rail against the more powerful. It doesn't mean that feminists despise you because you are male any more than you despise your postman because he works for the government.

CRider > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:24

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Hopefully she'd get at least one year in prison for #5 alone. Of course, a few months in the hospital wouldn't be bad either...

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:28

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Everyone else thinks this is a big joke, but honestly I get to live the life I want because of the feminists who came before me. Especially my great grandmother (a college-educated woman who left an abusive alcoholic husband to raise her two children on her own during the Depression), my grandmother, (an active supporter of women's rights to this day, mostly in the AAUW), and my mother and father, who didn't listen to the ignorant people telling them their little girls couldn't play football or hockey or join varsity wrestling, ride dirtbikes, study aerospace engineering, captain a search and rescue vessel, drive a manual, lift heavy weights, work on their own cars and bikes, train in an MMA gym against men, or be anything other than the pretty faces we're expected to be. These are small examples of the microaggressions I see every day for not being exactly what is expected of a 23 year old woman. I can only speak for my personal experience in the States, but my Hungarian family especially finds it a huge joke that my sister was even allowed to play soccer. We're only supposed to like shopping, duh!

So for the parents out there, I need feminism because we cannot afford to pigeonhole children based on absolute bullshit gender roles, for boys and girls, here and especially abroad. "Girl" or "bitch" or "pussy" are still seen as one of the worse things you can call a boy or man because women are still supposed to be inherently inferior. Doing 'manly' things can make a girl "cool" among the right crowd (or more likely, 'just doing it for the attention,' but whatever) but if a boy wants to do something typically girly? There's something wrong with him for wanting to lower himself to our level. Please don't be the ones reinforcing this in the next generation.

TL;DR:

Bill Gates recalls once being invited to speak in Saudi Arabia and finding himself facing a segregated audience. Four-fifths of the listeners were men, on the left. The remaining one-fifth were women, all covered in black cloaks and veils, on the right. A partition separated the two groups. Toward the end, in the question-and-answer session, a member of the audience noted that Saudi Arabia aimed to be one of the Top 10 countries in the world in technology by 2010 and asked if that was realistic. "Well, if you're not fully utilizing half the talent in the country," Gates said, "you're not going to get too close to the Top 10." The small group on the right erupted in wild cheering.

From an informative 2009 NYT article focusing on the ongoing struggles for women around the world.

Merkin Muffley > Kailand09 04/03/2014 at 15:29

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Some people who are nice aren't correct, and some people who are correct aren't nice.

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:32

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As I've said before and I'll say again: Jezebel is a poor excuse for a feminist site. It's a gossip mag. Please see feministing.com and the articles they share. I also don't know what uniquely male ideals you are talking about.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Gamecat235 04/03/2014 at 15:33

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Understanding that men and women react differently to things. Also it is instinctual for men to be 'macho' to attract females. Though this whole attitude can get out of hand, it is still a real thing. Look up how the Japanese aren't having sex with one another. It isn't that uncommon for me to pay women just to talk with them. One could say that the men need to man up. Manning up is a real thing, and it is what makes men who they are. There are other ways to deal with things, but traditionally men deal with their problems by moving on and using rational thought. You can act however you want, but trying to change things like this is not worth the time.

Kailand09 > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 15:33

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This is true.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 15:34

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But. . . . I love my postman. Excuse me, postperson.

Merkin Muffley > Kailand09 04/03/2014 at 15:34

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If the anti-slavery movement had been called "shiteatingism," would it have been less correct?

Reigntastic > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:35

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Yes, I know that my lyrics may be sexist, but you lovely bitches and hoes know I'm trying to correct it.

Merkin Muffley > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:35

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Exactly.

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:35

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Too late to edit, but this disgusting thread is also why I need feminism: so I can laugh off sad, sad, sexually repressed people like that.

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Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 15:38

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I found that, um, interesting.

Gamecat235 > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 15:38

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Also, let's not lump in the commentariat from Jezebel and their offtopic forums and recruits (hi Kat !, love roygbiv !) with the ethos of the Jezebel mainpage. There are large number of commenters who hang out mostly on Groupthink (their oppo) who fit more into what you are thinking of. And GT is a feminist space, whereas Jezebel isn't quite...

And for the record, I've been a commenter on Groupthink for years. And a moderator here since Kinja started. And our handbook cribs heavily from their guidelines. Openly and with permission. =)

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:40

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Come on now, men are not animals. Humans have long since progressed past truly relying on instinct. Though your use of the term "attract females" is rather telling.

thebigbossyboss > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:41

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I dont like mine. I wish they`d deliver my mail to my house instead of one two streets over all the time.

Gamecat235 > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:42

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The issues you have outlined are societal and are directly related to upbringing and the environment which cultivates them. Without these constructs (society as it is currently), we could have an entirely different culture where gender is just a factor with how we reproduce and how we identify as a sexual human. It does not need to be anything more than that.

StoneCold > CRider 04/03/2014 at 15:43

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For once, looking at the comments of an article actually gives me hope.

yamahog > Gamecat235 04/03/2014 at 15:43

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I stopped reading their main page years ago, and never delved into their Kinja sites, so agreed, I can't speak for them. It just grinds my gears hearing the guys rail against Jezebel as if it's the be-all-end-all of feminism when in reality.... not so much.

Rainbow > Kailand09 04/03/2014 at 15:44

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Agreed. Words relating to social equality (and inequality) really make no sense. So many -isms meaning both good and bad things, and then you get the occasional anti- thrown onto the front for no reason.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 15:47

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I'm a subdued male, but it's obvious that males in general will try to impress the opposite sex. Doesn't really matter how far we've progressed. By now it's just a cock comparison of who's the most talented at x and who's go the most money, or whatever they think will have positive effects on women. And to prove this, their is a reason women still get hot in the loins when looking at a muscular man.

crowmolly > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:47

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It is necessary everywhere for a multitude of reasons. Advancement of equality and tearing down gender roles is a big one. There will be radicals in that camp just like there will be in every other one. That does not dilute their overall message and purpose. I personally like the progress we are making towards placing the best candidate in a position based on talent vs. gender, race, or sexual preference, which can work both ways (seen this personally).

In a sense it's the NHRA's way of being equal.

You a great driver? Cool. Here's a helmet. No penis? No problem. More melanin? Here's your fire suit. Just go out there and win. If you lose it's because YOU suck. Not your demographic.

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:50

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Ah, thought I'd linked the whole thread. Here it is.

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An acid attack threat, how apropos.

yamahog > crowmolly 04/03/2014 at 15:51

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I suddenly want a bumper sticker that says "No Penis, No Problem!"

But upside down, because Jeep.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > StoneCold 04/03/2014 at 15:56

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yeah, at least Cosmo got blasted a new asshole for that peice of shite. still...

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 15:59

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I'm sorry you feel that way.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 15:59

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Eh, you were instigating and he was just being ridicules. But, there was some truth in there. Honestly it's sad what goes on. I turn a blind eye. Some things will never change. But, rather that set up a chair and watch the fireworks and STDs run free, I will be improving myself and working for a better community by utilizing my strengths and improving my weaknesses. Yes, this sounds preachy, but some things are a lost cause. I'm a college student, I've seen stupidity. At that age you are in charge of your life. Unfortunately, most of them are/were a victim of their upbringing.

Kailand09 > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 16:00

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Not at all, but there is a reason it wasn't called that. You also would never call a new product you are releasing "pieceofshit".

I'm just stating the the very name feminism, to many, already imbues a sense of anti-equality. I don't really care too much one way or the other until a radical starts yelling at me for opening the door for them.

Merkin Muffley > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 16:00

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it isn't instinctive. Men are socialized that way.

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 16:04

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Have you heard of the concept of slut-shaming, and do you know how it affects women's sexuality? Also, whether or not valve_float is aware, "get[ting] some whore shit faced drunk so you can 5 minute fuck her while shes passed out in benigans bathroom" is in fact rape, not a punishment something someone deserves for getting drunk, during spring break or any other time.

Merkin Muffley > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 16:12

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Sure, people try to impress other people. Men try to impress women. Women try to impress men. Men try to impress men, and women try to impress women. So what? We all want to be liked, respected, loved, noticed. This doesn't justify inappropriate behavior, though.

Also, we don't really choose what we are attracted to. So what if a woman is attracted to a muscular guy? The next woman might be attracted to someone who makes her laugh. Another might be attracted to someone brilliant, or caring, or hard working, or kind.

And sure, people do things that they think will make them more attractive to the people they are attracted to, but that doesn't have anything to do with how you should treat people. Being an asshole is still being an asshole, regardless of whether or not you are getting laid.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 16:14

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Liking sex is one thing, flashing tits or standing on a box in the middle of the beach for random guys to finger-bang you is another thing. And I really hope he know's that rape, it's a terrible thing. I'm not making excuses here, but what would do you think are the results from such stupid actions and poor decision making. I'm not saying it's her fault. It's the mans, completely, 100%. BUT, such things can be avoided (more) by making intelligent decisions. Even if you are going to go to the wild parties, bring a friend that you will stay close with, control your drinking, do whatever. Wear a spiked female condom for all a care. Fuck the asshole that's going to take advantage of her.

Merkin Muffley > Kailand09 04/03/2014 at 16:15

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The reason for the name was to give women a sense of empowerment in a society where they weren't empowered. The first step to actual empowerment is feeling empowered. Surely everyone can understand that feeling.

yamahog > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/03/2014 at 16:24

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Please, tell me more about how it's my job to not get raped.

Women NEVER get told that enough!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 16:28

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I just wanted to call out that I'm a brown belt in Judo, and some of the best fighters I've fought against were women. I sure as hell don't hold back against women, they are there to fight and it doesn't matter man vs woman. To me it's belt vs belt.

The hardest I've ever been thrown in my life was by a 115 lb 5 foot woman, and I've fought some big/intense dudes. She used perfect technique, almost broke my elbow once with an arm bar I was teaching her because she was so naturally good at it that in under a second I could feel bone on bone pressure.

What do you focus on in MMA? BJJ? Belt ranks?

Just curious, not many people I can chat martial arts with on here!

yamahog > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/03/2014 at 16:36

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I know you're in the metro D area... I train at MASH and Warrior Way 2-3 hours a day, six days a week. Mainly BJJ (gi and no gi), muay thai (which uses arm bands rather than belts), some boxing. We have an MMA class that ties everything together, adds the emphasis on cage/ground work, and we spend half the time full-on sparring. A lot of the guys I train with are pro and amateur MMA fighters, and I was cutting weight to get a muay thai fight lined up before I found out I needed surgery. Been out while recovering this week and it sucks!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 16:44

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Nice!

I haven't trained in a while due to well...life lol.

A 1 year old is very time consuming. It's a life goal of mine to get my black belt in Judo. I WILL DO IT EVENTUALLY. I was actually an instructor for a while up at Michigan State while I was there. Great Judo club. Seemed like everytime I got ready for a tournament something ended being sprained. I pushed myself too hard. I tore my miniscus once in Judo and the Dr. said it was simply from "over use".

Giving I only do Judo, I'm all Gi. I would imagine there's a huge advantage to practicing no-Gi for everyday/self defense purposes. Frankly, you're not always going to have a Gi in a fight!

These discussions only make me want to get back into it....if only I had the time and money!

yamahog > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/03/2014 at 16:54

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Ah, understandable. A lot of the parents at my gym end up enrolling their kids as well, only a few more years right? I do like no-gi a little better because I find gis uncomfortable as hell and collar chokes leave nasty bruises I don't like having to explain at work, but honestly, I would never even consider training BJJ for self-defense only. When I lived in LA I trained Krav Maga under Roy Elghanayan . Now THAT is self defense!!

yamahog > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 17:03

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I really really like this analogy. I feel like too many men get the impression that we are mad at ALL OF THEM PERSONALLY when it's actually kyriarchy that pisses me off and then it turns into Feminazi took my Ice Cream.

Merkin Muffley > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 17:17

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The thing that gets me is when guys get angry at any little thing that bugs them, but then can't understand why women might get angry at being treated as second class citizens. I've certainly met feminists I didn't like, just like I've met atheists I didn't like, liberals I didn't like, petrolheads I didn't like, and onanists I didn't like, but that doesn't mean I don't like/appreciate/approve of feminism, atheism, petrolheadedness, and onanism.

yamahog > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 17:22

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You mean an individual isn't necessarily representative of the group at large? Out of here with your radical ideas!!

Merkin Muffley > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 17:25

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And I'm in the south, no less. I could get shot for that kind of thinkin' around these parts. Don't tell anyone.

yamahog > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 17:27

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Don't even get me started on Michigan, aka the land of "rape insurance." Ugh I hate that nickname almost as much as the bullshit law.

Merkin Muffley > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 17:28

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wait whaaat?

yamahog > Merkin Muffley 04/03/2014 at 17:40

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http://www.freep.com/article/201403…

The worst part is our even our Republican governor shot down this measure the first time it was introduced, but somehow in this state, a petition signed by 300,000 citizens (4% of our population) with state legislative approval can override a governor's veto, and they waited until the last day of the congressional cycle to approve it so an opposing petition wouldn't have time to be heard. And surprise, surprise, the law has gone into effect without these riders being made available and providers are scrambling. In a state that already has a 24-hr waiting period, required reading of embarrassingly biased materials (aka "informed consent", the nerve) and parental approval needed for people under 18, this is another slap in the face of bodily autonomy.

Merkin Muffley > yamahog 04/03/2014 at 17:50

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wow. I'm so sorry. That is... Well, i don't know what that is. Shit.

samssun > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 04/04/2014 at 01:08

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"I personally need feminism because I like girls that can work on their cars"

There's very little overlap between the two groups. Feminists don't typically like cars, and none of the car girls I've known wanted the feminist label (several would make faces at the mention of the term).

yamahog > samssun 04/04/2014 at 08:37

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LOL.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > yamahog 04/04/2014 at 09:45

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Hell yea Krav is some serious self defense!

It's actually something that drives me nuts that you will find that super cocky BJJ guy that thinks he can win every fight on the street because he does BJJ. Unless the fight goes to the ground he's at a serious disadvantage unless he's cross trained.

Yeah just a few more years before I can get him into Judo. Can't wait, I think my wife is going to want him in something more like karate or TKD but I'll fight for Judo.

Despite the potential for some "questionable" neck bruises from Gi fighting, I prefer it. And also I only do Judo so I can still show up to work the next day and have a slim to no chance of a black eye from getting punched! Grappling arts!!!!

yamahog > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/04/2014 at 09:55

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Exactly! And I'm like 5'3", I really don't want to be taking a street fight to the ground!

If the kids at our gym are any indication, your little guy will probably want to do what Dad does anyway :) I've only shown up to work with facial bruising a few times, and everyone knows about my hobby so it's not that big a deal, but I think my nose is permanently borked already.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > yamahog 04/04/2014 at 10:14

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Haha, everyone who does some kind of martial arts OTHER than BJJ knows at least ONE of those guys. hahaha

Yeah I'm hoping he really wants to try Judo.

Sucks about your nose, that's why I do stuff that doesn't involve being hit in the face.

yamahog > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/04/2014 at 10:22

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Meh, I'm the only one who has noticed it so far, and sunglasses still fit, so it can't be that bad ;) at least it's no cauliflower ear!

Also the dude and I will probably be doing Woodward this evening, not sure if you have the Montego out already but if so we'll keep an eye out!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > yamahog 04/04/2014 at 10:33

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ALREADY?!

I've only taken the Montego to woodward once, and that was on dreamcruise day a few years ago. Its a long ride for me (im over by the airport for a rough reference) and frankly the Montego sucks on the highway, so I ride side streets.

It only has a 3 speed auto trans in it. I hit 3rd gear at 45 mph (ish) so basically it sits waaaay high in the RPM range when I take the highway. It's fully capable of the speed and endurance of keeping the RPM high I just don't like it. And now that I've done the dual flowmasters it's almost deafening hahaha.

I'll be sticking more to the West Side of Metro Detroit with the Montego as usual this summer.

Oh and my one year of woodward sucked btw. No power brakes, no AC, not even a working blower motor in the dash. This resulted in a very hot, very slow ride. And it's been overheating ever since! I prefer the Cruisin US 12 in the Wayne area. Short ride, less crazies.

yamahog > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/04/2014 at 10:36

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Ah, for some reason I thought you were a lot closer to ROak. There are some car meets on Woodward all season, but the bf is thinking the rain will keep the cool crowd away.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > yamahog 04/04/2014 at 10:37

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I'm sure it will. I've been forced to drive the Montego in rain twice.

Both times sucked lol.

Silly little wipers on it and no defroster (again, no working blower motor in dash haha)